Comments on: Table Manners: Rise #2

By: Zage

Zage — Sat, 14 May 2011 20:40:39 +0000

If I can’t convince you, fine, but *anyone* that’s *ever* played *any* magic *at all* knows Bloodthrone Vampire is *always* better than Lavafume Invoker, in *any* situation.
Boy I see why you stick with this over the top rhetoric posting style form, it’s pretty fun

Also I reject your straw man argument about Battle-Rattle, various invokers and cards like Ondu Giant

Now I think I’ve had my fun though, so I’ll let you have the last jab if you want it and if it’s not too over the top, I’ll let it go :p

By: drn

drn — Sat, 14 May 2011 04:28:55 +0000

Bloodthrone Vampires does 1 damage a turn unless you sacrifice a creature, or they have a decent blocker, and leads to 2-1, 3-1, sometimes even 5 or 6-1′s due to bounce/removal.

Lavafume never gets you 2-1′d, and makes it very easy to overwhelm them and just win with what is on the board.

ROE as a format is generally a race to 8 mana. Bloodthrone Vampire is a mediocre, very situational card. Lavafume Invoker is a grey ogre that turns into a win condition when you ramp up.

If I can’t convince you, fine, but anyone who has drafted a lot of Rise should know which is better. The set had a ton of poorly evaluated cards like Battle-Rattle Shaman, various invokers and cards like ondu giant that routinely went later than they should.

By: Zage

Zage — Fri, 13 May 2011 22:34:49 +0000

@Zonko:
I was (mostly) on your side! :’(
Also my daddy would win *this* big!

By: ZonkotheSane

ZonkotheSane — Fri, 13 May 2011 13:06:26 +0000

@ Zage:

My daddy can beat up your daddy.

By: Zage

Zage — Fri, 13 May 2011 08:05:13 +0000

@drn: Now you’re just trolling, right?
Bloodthrone Vampire has the enormous advantage that she doesn’t require 8 (!!) mana to go to work. Without it being a good idea to sac spawn for Lavafume (they make his power better, after all), you need 8 lands to get him active, and then you need to hope they don’t have a few good blockers to decimate your army while a few spawn do some damage. Oh and you won’t have an army to block with after that.
Bloodthrone doesn’t sacrifice defense for offense, doesn’t require a million mana and turns into a one-person abyss later in the game. If they just chump with Spawn you don’t even need to sac anything.

There is no comparison, Bloodthrone Vampire is way better. (Normally I wouldn’t be so outspoken, but since you’re doing it I thought I’d go for some over-the-top rhetoric, too.)

By: drn

drn — Thu, 12 May 2011 22:53:39 +0000

@Zage When you have a board situation where bloodthrone would be good, Lavafume invoker is almost always better. You can also chump block bloodthrone all day, or bounce it for a huge blowout They both go into the same deck, but lavafume invoker is much better.

@Zonko
First, Lavafume invoker is one of the three “good” invokers, (Wildheart and Dawnglare are the only one’s better). You first picked a Sarkhan, and second picked an awakening zone, so immediately you should start drafting the tokens archetype, in which lavafume shines.

Gnarlid isn’t “just a grey ogre” he’s actually one of the only green creatures with evasion, which is what makes him so sweet. Auras are just an awesome way to get 2/1′d. Cards like Ogre’s Cleaver or pennon blade which go great in token decks put him way over the top.

Again, you might want to look at the flaws of your own draft to learn something. You take a late Suffer the Past as a “Pet Card” and pass a spawning breath, yet another card that would have been much, much better than that or Pathrazer in your tokens deck. Late cards like that make tokens deck insane, and spawning breath is great in a format with a million 1/1 levelers and cards like dawnglare invoker which require removal.

By: ZonkotheSane

ZonkotheSane — Thu, 12 May 2011 13:32:44 +0000

@drn:

I’m sorry, but I’d have to disagree about Gnarlid, except if one is forcing that deck. I wasn’t. Snake Umbra is great with any two-drop, but Gnarlid is just an Ogre without Auras, and I wasn’t about to commit my draft to building around one or two creatures.

Lavafume Invoker is one of the weaker Invokers because it’s a mediocre body with an effect that requires a specific board state. While Awakening Zone creates that state handily, my deck wasn’t dedicated to Tokens heavily enough for me to consider Lavafume very important. Notice the Invasion in the board.